More carbs before/after hard cardio workout?
Been on Keto for a week now so I am definitely a keto-noob. I am very close to goal weight and only want to lose about 5 lbs. However, I think I need some guidance with regards to hard cardio. I cycle a lot and this morning I cycled about 19 KATY trail miles at high speeds to do some hard cardio. Near the end of my ride I was completely pooped. Like I hit a wall. I felt weak and a little light headed. This didn’t happen before I started Keto.
Do I need to eat some carbs before/after hard cardio? Feels like it.
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Bari Tone said:
I cycled about 19 KATY trail miles at high speeds to do some hard cardioHow often do you do a cycle ride like this? Might look into cyclical keto, see if you can adapt that style of keto to work for the days you plan a hardcore ride.
I cross train 1.5 to 2 hours on M-W-T-S.....on these days I put the bulk of my allowed carbs into a meal about an hour before I start the work out and I sip on protein water during the work out. If I don't do this...I am worthless after the workout and my day is shot.
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Thanks for the reply. I will Google cyclical keto and see what's up.
I actually ride hard about 3-4 times per week depending on the weather. Normal rides are like 55-60 minutes at full on sprint for max heart rate. Longer rides are a little slower and a little lower heart rate by like 10 bpm. The sprints don't seem to bother me unless I do them on consecutive days - which is what happened this weekend - and they were longer than normal as well. Maybe I will make sure there is at least one recovery day.
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Most welcome.
I’m also noob to the full on keto gig…so comparing notes/spit balling here, I guess.
Wonder if some of the issue could be the current insane heat indexes? I am acquainted with the area where you ride and gonna guess your area heat indexes are as insane as mine our (north west MS)
I have noticed since I started really cutting back on my carbs for the keto diet, my “mid-day” heat tolerance is almost nonexistent.
I don’t even bother trying to do anything outside once I see the index tip toward 95. I am trying to get more healthy salt into my diet, even adding a dash to one cup of coffee in the a.m. along with adding a dash to my water thru out the day.
Might check your salt intake.
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VickP said:
my “mid-day” heat tolerance is almost nonexistent.Shoot..missed a thought there.
10 mins outside doing more than walking to my Jeep, just wears me down to a cranky nub...not a normal state for me. A ride like you mentioned with the heat index and humidity may have caused some dehydration and messed with your electrolyte balance.
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Haha. I work outside quite a bit (construction) so the heat thing is not something I noticed before.
I have decided to carb up/down for hard workouts, but still keeping them on the lowish side. “Full fat” Gatorade & maybe 2 pbj 1/2 sammiches. One before and, if needed, 1 after.
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Bari Tone said:
“Full fat” Gatorade & maybe 2 pbj 1/2 sammiches. One before and, if needed, 1 after.Hope you report back how it does for you. I've read about DIY "Ketorade" to avoid all the sugars in Gatorade. Seems to be many recipe versions on the net.
I am still trying to tweak that "pre-workout" meal". So far I haven't stalled my weight loss with the "mini carb loading" on work out days, hopefully your results will be the same.
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VickP Sorry for the delayed reply but the app blocked me from replying for a few days. Tech support cleared that up.
Before my hard cardio workout last Saturday, I did have about 30 carbs for breakfast, then a full-on keto almost no-carb lunch. I then cycled/sprinted about 18 miles on the trail again to approximate what I did the week before when I encountered my burned-out problem. I also drank a Gatorade (not a G2) on my ride. I had plenty of energy and held my speed the whole ride...so my guess is when I do hard cardio, I need to "fuel up" a bit.
I also researched a bit on cardio/keto. Most sites recommended only doing moderate cardio when on keto.
I am down 6.6 pounds already (in 13 days) and have 1.4 to go. Once I hit goal weight I will up my carbs to about 55/day. That seems to be about the level I can do to maintain my weight.
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Bari Tone said:
I am down 6.6 pounds already (in 13 days) and have 1.4 to go.Congrats on keeping the motivation to keep the loss going!
(Weight loss ......the only time we get congrats for being a "looser"😂)
Thanks for the update....this "diet math" is so insanely head scratching /headache inducing... it sure helps to have others input on what works!! I read some say you should carb load after the work out...but that has never made sense to me...I don't need the energy after the workout and if I am loosing steam half way thru the workout..then..well...you get the gist of THAT!
It's good to read a personal experience that jives with my own.
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VickP I did another hard Trail ride Yesterday - a little shorter but sprinted the whole hour. Only had 11 grams of carbs prior to the ride and drank G2. No issues at all.
I am beginning to think the Fatigue issues I had a couple of weeks ago were probably from the sudden change in diet.
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Bari Tone said:
I am beginning to think the Fatigue issues I had a couple of weeks ago were probably from the sudden change in diet.Good to read you have it sorted out and getting a handle on it.
Do you have a set time daily or is it more "got the time, grab the bike and go" ridding?
I'm struggling with timing the workout with my eating routine, and that probably makes more sense in my head.
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Weekend afternoons for sure, sometimes late morning. It's definitely getting too dark too soon for weeknight trail rides...headed back to the gym/Spin Class next week.
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Bari Tone said:
Been on Keto for a week now so I am definitely a keto-noob. I am very close to goal weight and only want to lose about 5 lbs. However, I think I need some guidance with regards to hard cardio. I cycle a lot and this morning I cycled about 19 KATY trail miles at high speeds to do some hard cardio. Near the end of my ride I was completely pooped. Like I hit a wall. I felt weak and a little light headed. This didn’t happen before I started Keto.
Do I need to eat some carbs before/after hard cardio? Feels like it.
Keto Adapted
It takes around three days to get into ketosis.
It takes long to become Keto Adapted; where you body is fully capable of utilizing fat and not reliant on glucose (carbohydrates).
Ingesting carbohydrates prior to or after training continues to make you "Glucose Dependent" and does not allow you to effectively burn ketones for energy.
Endurance Training
As you know, research as far back as the 1980's (Dr Stephen Phinney), has demonstrated that Endurance Training/Sport Athletes perform well once Keto Adapted.
As you noted, ...
Bari Tone said:
I am beginning to think the Fatigue issues I had a couple of weeks ago were probably from the sudden change in diet.Thus, by by maintaining the Keto Diet, you training will improve.
Bari Tone said:
Before my hard cardio workout last Saturday, I did have about 30 carbs for breakfast, then a full-on keto almost no-carb lunch. I then cycled/sprinted about 18 miles on the trail again to approximate what I did the week before when I encountered my burned-out problem.Sprints
I am assuming that by "Sprints", you mean that your ride was mixed with Interval Sprints, followed by moderate to lower intensity.
Low-Carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet Combined with 6-Weeks of Crossfit Training Improves Body Composition and Performance https://www.clinmedjournals.org/articles/ijsem/international-journal-of-sports-and-exercise-medicine-ijsem-3-054.php
This research article is based on CrossFit Athletes. Much of their training involves short Intense Intervals (essentially Sprint type training) mixed with moderate to lower intensity.
Gregory's research demonstrated that after being on the Keto Diet for 6 weeks, the Keto Adapted Athlete were able to perform to the same level as those on the Standard American (High Carbohydrate) Diet.
Take Home Message
As you noted, the "Sudden Change" in your diet was the issue.
Kenny Croxdale
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Kenny Croxdale
Thanks for the detailed reply. I figured I was close with realizing the fatigue was probably caused by the sudden change in diet.
As for my cycling sprints...it was a flat out cycle as fast as I can from start to finish, operating at max heart rate on the trails. Last time out was fastest speed for the year...so no ill effects with the diet.
🚴💨💨💨 👍 -
Bari Tone
Bari Tone said:
As for my cycling sprints...it was a flat out cycle as fast as I can from start to finish, operating at max heart rate on the trails. Last time out was fastest speed for the year...so no ill effects with the diet.Bari,
I am sure you had intensity ride.
However, there is an inverse relationship between time and intensity.
When intensity goes up, time goes down.
When time goes up, intensity goes down.
The Energy Systems
1) Phosphagen Energy System: This is the system is utilized for sprints, maximum strength, power and speed.
It utilized ATP (Adinosine Triphosphate).
The majority of ATP is depleted in around 15 seconds or less; with complete depletion occurring in 30 seconds.
Once ATP is depleted in the muscles, sprints, maximum strength, power and speed drop like a rock.
Mile Run Example
While running a mile is intense, it isn't a sprint, nor is any other type of distance event.
Let's say an individual can sprint 100 yard in 10 seconds.
If they were able to maintain that sprint intensity in a mile run, that would sprint the mile in 2 minutes and 56 seconds. (1760 yards/mile, divided by 100 yards = 17.6 X 10 seconds =176 seconds, 176 seconds divided by 60 seconds = 2.93 seconds/2 minutes and 56 seconds).
"The current world record for one mile is 3:43.13, set by Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco in 1999." https://www.healthline.com/health/average-mile-time#:~:text=The%20current%20world%20record%20for,Guerrouj%20of%20Morocco%20in%201999.
no ill effects with the diet.
Glad to hear you are now Keto Adapted.
Kenny Croxdale
